Sunday, June 7, 2009

Fighting with words

There are many ways you know you got the better of your opponent. I can remember a boxing match, my opponent was an infighter, very busy and very aggressive, constantly swarming me with pressure. I'd try to fight in the inside but that was his domain, so I had to step back to create some space, not only to get him off me, but also to be able to mount an effective offense. After an inside exchange I stepped back looking for a counter, he stepped toward me and I lashed out with a cross, I hit him flush in the face. I thought to myself, 'I should keep an eye out for that opening' and sure enough the next time I stepped back the opening was there. After about 3 or 4 times he stopped rushing in, the pressure subsided, the punches decreased in volume, my opponent had fallen 'silent'.

Luke 20:1-26

Luke 20
Jesus’ Authority Questioned
1 Now it happened on one of those days, as He taught the people in the temple and preached the gospel, that the chief priests and the scribes, together with the elders, confronted Him 2 and spoke to Him, saying, “Tell us, by what authority are You doing these things? Or who is he who gave You this authority?”
3 But He answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, and answer Me: 4 The baptism of John—was it from heaven or from men?”
5 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say, ‘Why then[a] did you not believe him?’ 6 But if we say, ‘From men,’ all the people will stone us, for they are persuaded that John was a prophet.” 7 So they answered that they did not know where it was from.
8 And Jesus said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”
The Parable of the Wicked Vinedressers

9 Then He began to tell the people this parable: “A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out.
13 “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.’ 14 But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’ 15 So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others.”
And when they heard it they said, “Certainly not!”
17 Then He looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written:


‘ The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone’?[b]

18 Whoever falls on that stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
19 And the chief priests and the scribes that very hour sought to lay hands on Him, but they feared the people[c]—for they knew He had spoken this parable against them.
The Pharisees: Is It Lawful to Pay Taxes to Caesar?

20 So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.
21 Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth: 22 Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Why do you test Me?[d] 24 Show Me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?”
They answered and said, “Caesar’s.”
25 And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
26 But they could not catch Him in His words in the presence of the people. And they marveled at His answer and kept silent.


Jesus seemed to employ that here, countering the chief priests and elders words with His own. After hitting them with so many counters they simply had nothing left, they could no longer apply pressure, their words decreased in volume, Christs superior intellect and grasp of the scriptures allowed Him to counter effectively each time, until they could no longer press the fight.

Getting the opponent in a rage is another indication you've gotten the better of him. I remember being at the gym sparring with new guys and teaching them the ropes, I would go light, not hit too hard, just hit them every time they dropped their hands or made a mistake. After about a round or two they would eventually start swinging for the fences, same thing happened in actual fights, after getting hit with POT shots round after round the opponent goes into a frenzy, throwing hay makers, trying to take your head off with each punch. It takes the opponent out of the game mentally and emotionally. An experienced fighter knows if the only thing they're doing is thinking about killing you, about hurting you, then they're not thinking about defending themselves, usually the fight is over quickly.

John 8:48-59

Before Abraham Was, I AM

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[a] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[b] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The opponents are taken out of the game mentally and emotionally as they picked up stones to try and kill Him. They're so many instances in Christianity that are analogous to fighting I have no doubt in my mind, had Bruce Lee not died so early, he would've become a Christian.

5 comments:

Flute said...

Getting the opponent in a rage is another indication you've gotten the better of him.

On an on-line forum you can get an "opponent" in a rage by repeatedly asserting nonsense. By refusing to acknowledge your own mistakes. By resorting to childish insults.
I think I understand your comments on Dan's "Debunking Atheists" site a whole lot more.

I have no doubt in my mind, had Bruce Lee not died so early, he would've become a Christian.

I know you are only speculating, but Bruce Lee becoming a Christian would have been pretty unlikely.
In an interview with Alex Ben Block, Lee was asked if he believed in God. He replied, "To be perfectly frank, I really do not."
His little brother asked him if he believed in a God. According to his brother, he said "I believe in sleeping."
He thought religion was "a step in the wrond direction"

Theological Discourse said...

Flute, you and the other ignorant people over there have yet to prove a single thing I have said is nonsense or prove a single error I have made. Having a personal feeling that what I've made a mistake or what I say is nonsense does not = proving I have made a mistake or what I say is nonsense. I know it's difficult to think logically but at least attempt it while you're here.


I know you are only speculating, but Bruce Lee becoming a Christian would have been pretty unlikely.
In an interview with Alex Ben Block, Lee was asked if he believed in God. He replied, "To be perfectly frank, I really do not."
His little brother asked him if he believed in a God. According to his brother, he said "I believe in sleeping."
He thought religion was "a step in the wrond direction"

That is why I said "had Bruce Lee not died so early, he would've become a Christian. " You act like there's never been an atheist who was against religion that's become a Christian. Lee became a 'martial arts atheist' to shed his erroneous views on combat to set down on a path to find truth via fighting. At one point on that path he would've encountered the truest form of fighting one could obtain, religion is no different. One useful thing about atheism is it allows people to shed erroneous views on Christianity so hopefully down the road if they're bright logical people, they would recognize the true religion.

Flute said...

Flute, you and the other ignorant people over there have yet to prove a single thing I have said is nonsense or prove a single error I have made.

You said:
"The patriarch you refer to never married his half sister, she was never his sister, he told her to call herself his sister so they wouldn't kill him."
Then later:
...means biological sister, sister in law or adopted sister. Each is a VALID interpretation...

From wiki:
A half sibling (half brother or half sister) is a sibling with one shared biological or adoptive parent.
~~~~~~~
"Marriage is not a right PERIOD. It isn't even a legal right, it definitely isn't an civil right "
"The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not legally biding so Jill has no point at all."
Countries in the UN recognize this declaration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
In response to "a cat is not capable of acting as executor of an estate." you said "People leave their stuff to the pets when they die all the time."
Maybe, but a cat is still not capable of acting as an executor of an estate.

Etc... It just goes on and on...


The arguments "supporting gay marriage can be used to support incest and people marrying animals,"
When proven wrong, you just said it over and over.

Consent is not required to engage in sexual acts with the pets or own the pets in the first place, so your consent point is irrelevant.

I hope you are kidding.

Bestial marriage will soon enough be federally recognized, and the issue will naturally go away.

I hope you are kidding.

Flute said...

That is why I said "had Bruce Lee not died so early, he would've become a Christian. " You act like there's never been an atheist who was against religion that's become a Christian.

If you don't stay an atheist, you were never a true atheist. :-) Lee seems pretty adamant.

One useful thing about atheism is it allows people to shed erroneous views on Christianity so hopefully down the road if they're bright logical people, they would recognize the true religion.

What does Islam being the one true religion have to do with it? :-) If people are bright and logical, they would recognize that religion was not true.

Theological Discourse said...


If you don't stay an atheist, you were never a true atheist. :-) Lee seems pretty adamant.

I really hope this is a joke, I guess by that logic if I didn't stay a kid I was never a true kid. I guess if the millions of people that had their cancer go into recession, they were never true cancer patients. Also, you've engaged in a no true scottsman fallacy, typical atheist ignorance.

What does Islam being the one true religion have to do with it? :-) If people are bright and logical, they would recognize that religion was not true.

I am not a muslim.